| JebNY | -- 07-21-2011 @ 3:41 PM |
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The 3 speed floor shift transmission in my 1950 F1 started making a noise a few weeks ago. I get a clatter when I shift into second with no load or if coasting down in gear clutch out. Only happens in second and I can live with it for now by only using second for accelerating (no noise while accelerating). I don't want a catastrophic failure, but would rather not tear down in the middle of the driving season. Any ideas, sycro going maybe? It doesn't seems to make the noise on a cooler day (below 80) till after 10 minutes or so of driving. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 7-25-11 @ 5:24 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-21-2011 @ 6:14 PM |
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Jim, You've got metal floating around in your gearbox. At the very least, drain, flush, and examine the flush for junk. You're for sure gonna pay some bucks, but if you wait, worst case scenario is that you can bust your gearcase if you pick up a broken tooth off the bottom. Alan
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| 51f1 | -- 07-22-2011 @ 6:22 AM |
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I had a broken 2nd gear tooth in my '51 F-1 transmission, but I didn't know it until I took it apart. Your noise could be worn bearings or the synchronizer. The main drive gear (3rd) and the intermediate gear (2nd) are constantly meshed with the countershaft gears. The synchronizer locks the 2nd or 3rd gear to the output shaft, as appropriate. Take it apart and fix it. It's not that hard, and parts are available. It's probably way past time for a rebuild anyway. Richard
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| JebNY | -- 07-22-2011 @ 4:24 PM |
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It was checked and cleaned up when it was put back together about 3 years ago by the fellow I bought it from, so it isn't like it has been together for 60 years. I will drain and check for metal parts (as soon as it cools off a bit). Doesn't sound like metal floating around but it might be a noise caused by a tooth missing. Not sure why it would go away when you first drive it when it is cold if it is a tooth. Was hoping this was a known failure or symptom. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 7-25-11 @ 5:25 PM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 07-22-2011 @ 5:07 PM |
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since the sound get worse after the trans gets warmed up- I would bet the countershaft needle bearings are worn, allowing the gears to "climb" upon themselves, or the thrust washer is worn allowing the counter shaft gear to move forward or back. drain out like has been described, go in thru the drain hole and with a small long screwdriver and attempt to move the gear forward or backward with trans in neutral
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| supereal | -- 07-23-2011 @ 10:27 AM |
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Almost always, "clatter" is due to a broken or damaged tooth, either on the cluster, or driven gear, and disassembly in the best, and usually only, remedy.
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| JebNY | -- 07-25-2011 @ 5:24 PM |
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I drained the transmission today then flushed it out with kerosine and saw no big junks in the drained fluids. I reached in both the bottom and side hole and tried to move gears and such around and everything seems tight. I partially filled and drained to flush out kerosine residue and then refilled. I will drive sparingly till I figure out what to do next. I'm not really in a position to pull it right now. How hard are replacement standard duty 3 speed top shifters to find? If I pull it out it would be nice to just put in a replacement so I can continue to drive while the weather is good and rebuild the transmission or have it rebuilt later. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 7-25-11 @ 5:24 PM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 07-26-2011 @ 6:29 AM |
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since you found no chunks and maybe just some small pieces of metal-steel or brass? Steel is worn gears/bearings, brass is worn syncro. As a sort of on the fly fix I would add some sort of additive, there is one that is called "HY-Tach" that I have used in noisy gear sets to calm them down a little, try something like that
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| JebNY | -- 08-01-2011 @ 6:07 PM |
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Since the problem was getting worse even with only a few short trips, I pulled the transmission today. As several people have told me, it turned out to be a lot easier than I expected. With more complete flushing still no big chunks, but with probably less than 50 miles on it since I flushed and refilled, it was already showing signs of alot of metal powder. I talked to a friend Friday that is a long time Ford man and mechanic and he said he has done many of these transmissions over the years. I delivered it to him to rebuild this afternoon. I'll let you know what it turns out to be. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 8-1-11 @ 6:07 PM
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| JebNY | -- 08-02-2011 @ 5:41 PM |
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I already heard back from the fellow that I took the transmission to. Not a good report. Even though it looked good from the top he found a couple of broken teeth on the cluster gear and one of the shafts had worn into the case. So he suggested I try and find a different transmission to start. He also said the wear he saw had happened over many miles not the last 50-100 since I started hearing noise. I have a few feelers out but thought I would mention on here that I need a standard duty 3 speed top loader. The books says it is the same as 39-51 or so car and truck. I'm in the Rochester NY area and will be traveling down to Macungie PA for the big show their this weekend if anyone has something available. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-04-2011 @ 9:55 AM |
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JebNY was wondering if you contacted Charlie Schwendler he is a club member and advertises in the V8 TIMES and rebuilds tranmissions,and is a expert and has many parts, he is in ORCHARD PARK NY, might be not to far away from you, check your V8 MEMBER ROSTER,for his contact info,,, hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN
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| supereal | -- 08-04-2011 @ 11:20 AM |
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Jeb: If the cluster is damaged, it will be tough to locate a used piece, as there are three different versions for the '50 PU. Two have 28 teeth, one has 26. The difference between the 28 tooth clusters is the internal bearings. One uses needle bearings, the other the caged variety. New good quality clusters usually run from $400 on up, so finding a good used box may be a better bet.
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| JebNY | -- 08-04-2011 @ 3:25 PM |
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I dropped of the transmission at Charlie's shop today around noon. The different cluster gears must be why the first thing he did was count the teeth. He said no problem, he had to pick up a seal but had everything else and would get it rebuilt for me in a few days. I had talked to Charlie at a region gathering about 1 1/2 years ago. Most everyone I talked to locally said "take it to Charlie over by Buffalo" so I got hold of him and took a 2 hour drive. Thanks for all the advise. Looks like the truck will be back on the road soon. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 8-4-11 @ 3:27 PM
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| JebNY | -- 08-10-2011 @ 3:32 PM |
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Picked up the rebuilt transmission on Monday and the truck was back on the road Tuesday afternoon (I did have to wait for the rain to pass for a test drive). Never having pulled a tranny from a 1950 F1 I took a few extra steps and with no lift a few to many crawling off the floor to get tools that I didn't have handy. Took about 3 hours to get out and about the same in. Some of that was removing the interior misc stuff to get to the plate that allows you to take it out through the cab. Although the back time seemed like the bigger part of the job (lift would ave been real nice). Besides all the obvious wear parts that Charlie replaced he replaced the cluster gear, second gear and the case. Back shifting nice and as quiet as I would expect a 60+ year old truck to be. Thanks to all for the advice. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake This message was edited by JebNY on 8-10-11 @ 3:33 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-10-2011 @ 4:19 PM |
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Jim, That's good news and the driving season is going on! Now you can make it to the Central National Meet in Auburn! Looks like it's gonna be a big one! Alan
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