| f1ford48 | -- 09-15-2010 @ 7:44 PM |
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Hi Fellow Truck V8ers--I purchased a 41 4 cyl. pickup this summer. and now I am not so sure that it was originally equipped as so.the vin #9C 1944 is stamped on the frame top rail by steering box.[with a star on each end]firewall has another # ending in 44 but illegible. can anyone tell me what engine was originally in this truck? it also has a 4 speed with reverse lock-in. the tailgate is interesting in that it is the normal ''3 square'' design but with no FORD script-all 3 blank.any info would be highly appreciated
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| 1932BB | -- 09-16-2010 @ 8:56 AM |
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It is not unusual to see the four cylinder engine in Ford trucks through 41. Serial number chasing does not tell you much about old Ford cars and even less about old Ford trucks. In the older big trucks, the K member on the frame was the rear mount for the transmission and therefore would be different and not fit a car transmission which would have been standard in a pickup. Does your truck have a car type or large truck rear axle? Car or truck (Budd) wheels? Having said this, it is not uncommon, especially here in the UP of Michigan to find trucks that were created from car parts to tea kettles just to get the job done.
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| supereal | -- 09-16-2010 @ 11:47 AM |
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The tipoff is the "9" in the number. The 4 cylinder engines used in '41 and '42 were virtually identical to the 9N Ford tractor engines, and shared many parts. The prefix 2NC was used. You can confirm if the truck had the 4 cylinder engine by checking the rear end gear ratio. The 4 bangers had the 4-55 ratio in the light trucks, if it had the original axle. The four cylinder trucks were not popular as they shared the 9N tractor's lack of power, and couldn't get out of their own way. Now, Ford has "gone back to the future" with the Turkish built "Transit" with a tiny 4 cylinder engine. Early reports say this truck is a throwback to the early 40's underpowered type. This message was edited by supereal on 9-16-10 @ 1:32 PM
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| unclemark | -- 09-16-2010 @ 8:25 PM |
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Try to locate a small book written by Robert Towne some 25+ years ago called "tale of 2 trucks". This guy put a lot of effort and research into the 40-41 pickups that will prove to be very useful to you. There are some copies still floating around. hope this helps. Mark
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-16-2010 @ 8:45 PM |
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thanks everyone for the input. it does have the 4.55 rear end. and a 60 mph speedo with shift pattern.the fuel line on pass front frame. spoon accelerator pedal is also linked to a throttle cable. has anyone seen the tailgate with no FORD script-could it have been an aftermarket? all of the other hardware looks normal ford.[tailgate was ''blacksmithed'']
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-16-2010 @ 8:58 PM |
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saw my first ''Transit'' on the road today.not a bad looking little vehicle. to 32BB- my truck is the 1/2 ton commercial car? basically on a car chassis-car wheels and hubcaps.but a 4 speed that looks like its from a bigger truck. torquetube driveline. possibly an extra leaf or 2 on the rear spring.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-16-2010 @ 9:24 PM |
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Mark, I don't find such a book among my sources, nor is there a credit to Robert Towne of Hollywood fame for a work of that category. Would you mind checking your author and title again please? Thank you, Alan
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| alanwoodieman | -- 09-17-2010 @ 8:52 AM |
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Howard (not Robert) is from New Hampshire and I have a photo copy of his book-I owned the book, but someone else wanted it worse that I did $$$. I blew up the pages so they are easier for an old guy to read. I also have a picture of a 41 panel that was at the Atlanta V8 show a few years ago with a 4 cylinder engine from a tractor, even has a tractor radiator, rad cap etc. I have owned several 9N, 2N, 8N, NAA tractors so I recognized the parts.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-17-2010 @ 9:48 AM |
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Alan, Thanks, no cigar yet. The book must be pretty rare. Alan
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| alanwoodieman | -- 09-17-2010 @ 11:47 AM |
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e-mail me direct sometime, I will copy book for you, if you have no luck finding one. alanwoodieman@aol.com, alan48@charter.net
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-17-2010 @ 3:49 PM |
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Alan, Thank you, I'll probably take you up on your offer. I still have sources to comb through for an original, though. Alan
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-17-2010 @ 4:02 PM |
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Hi Alan- I would also be interested in a copy of this book as I can not find it anywhere on the internet yet.I would be glad to pay for it. Frank Schaeffer ''f1ford48'' fjschaeffer@netzero.com
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| trjford8 | -- 09-17-2010 @ 7:49 PM |
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f1ford48, I recently saw a 41 pickup with the tailgate that you describe. Three blank panels with no Ford script.
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| 51f1 | -- 09-18-2010 @ 7:05 AM |
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No FORD on the tailgate ought to tell you something. Ford was too embarrassed to ID the truck! Richard
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| alanwoodieman | -- 09-18-2010 @ 2:05 PM |
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there could have been three engines in a 41 truck 4 cyl, 6 cyl and the V8 so no V8 on the tailgate
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2010 @ 10:44 AM |
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If your truck has a car chassis and wheels, but a four speed transmission, it would appear to have been assembled from parts. The "BB" trucks had frames that were different from the cars, and mostly had open driveshafts, if they were larger than the "heavy duty" 3/4 ton type which did have the torque tube and the large bolt circle wheels and drums. Those axles were the "clamsh*ll" type, however, rather than the "banjo". Perhaps someone tried to provide some additional power to the 4 banger by adding the 4 speed. As to the tailgate, many were damaged in use and replaced by aftermarket or homebuilt pieces.
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-19-2010 @ 1:09 PM |
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well- the mystery goes on- now it looks like the floor was cut out to clear the 4 CYL starter.perhaps this truck originally came with the 6 because of the fuel line location and throttle lever [spoon]this must mean that the 4 cyl trucks had an indented firewall for that starter or a different firewall altogether. the engine is complete in every way and I am told by a tractor expert that the oil pan is definitely ''truck'' Ive decided to put a '41 V8 in it.
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2010 @ 3:46 PM |
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The oil pan had to be different, as the tractor pan forms part of the chassis, and is cast instead of pressed. The V8 will be a considerable improvement, but the high ratio rear end will be a problem if you plan to drive it on the highway. The 4-55 will have the engine screaming by the time you get to 50. The idea is to have the engine revs fall in the "power band", or close to 2,000. That is why most cars have a 3-78. There is about 17% difference in high gear from the 4-55. I'd look for a different rear axle, too, when you find an engine.
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| TomO | -- 09-21-2010 @ 1:28 PM |
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A 41 4 cylinder pickup just sold for $25,000 at the Ron Stauffer Auction. It was rated #2. I think that this is more than a V-8 pickup would get. The V-8 would be more fun to drive. Tom
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| supereal | -- 09-21-2010 @ 1:52 PM |
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Someone must have really wanted it, as the price guide shows a 1941 PU in #2 as $14,000 with a 10% deduct for a four cylinder engine. That would drop it to about half of that 25G. I suspect it was to be street rodded if the body was exceptional. That usually results in these high sale numbers.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 09-21-2010 @ 6:17 PM |
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contact me direct with your address, etc for a copy of the book
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-22-2010 @ 12:22 PM |
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OK Alan- I will email you today- thanks.....I saw Rons truck on line and was able to download pics of it- I am not so sure it was an original 4 either. I think it had a 100 mph speedo. sure was a clean truck though.about as nice as they get. he also had a 4 cyl. panel truck that sold at the same auction.
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-25-2010 @ 5:33 PM |
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my trucks grill is sheetmetal and spotwelded. I just bought a mint grill that is the same and was wondering are these the original FORD or aftermarket? another V8er tells me the originals are pot metal.which is correct? will the bumper irons from a car also be useable on the pickup? [front] where can I get a hood release handle-[chrome]?
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| unclemark | -- 09-25-2010 @ 9:12 PM |
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1st, sorry I had the name wrong on the book, I had to go dig it up to see. 2nd I would very much like to know what kinds of grilles were in the 40-41 p/u's The parts books show variations and so does Towne's book however no mention of the cast versus steel. I too am curious about cast vs. steel and stamped. Can some one shed some light on this? thanks guys.
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| unclemark | -- 09-25-2010 @ 9:13 PM |
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Do you still have the URL to the photos of that auction and the p/u and panel?
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| trjford8 | -- 09-26-2010 @ 7:39 AM |
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To my knowledge the grilles were die cast. The stamped steel grilles were after market unless someone put a 39 deluxe grille in your pickup. The 39 deluxe grille would have small holes in the stamped bars for the stainless trim strips. Most of the stamped steel repo grilles came from Argentina. Many time you will find "Industria Argentina" stamped somewhere on the grille.
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-26-2010 @ 11:52 AM |
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thanks- I will look for the Argentina mark on this grill-it looks like a repro to me basically because of the lack of rust and thinner sheetmetal gauge. according to Vanpelt parts and service my Vin# on frame suggests my pickup was built in 1940 and was 95 horsepower V8 equipped. [9C-1944] its titled as a 41 and looks correct 1941. another interesting tidbit. the tailgate has the original grey paint as found on rest of truck so this ''mystery tailgate'' with no FORD script looks factory!!! heres a pic of the 4cyl pickup that sold for 25k I can send you what I have if you cant get pics online.
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-26-2010 @ 12:11 PM |
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if you google Ron Stauffer auction and then go to VanDerBrink auctions you will find lots of photos of that pickup.and all of the auction results. I still think that 100 mph speedo is incorrect.
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| f1ford48 | -- 09-26-2010 @ 12:18 PM |
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by the by- the Stauffer pickup also had the 9C prefix on the vin#. so whats the deal? heres a Marmon Herrington.KEEP ON TRUCKIN
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| TomO | -- 09-28-2010 @ 8:36 AM |
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If your pickup came with the 221 cu in V-8 engine originally, it would have the 18 prefix in the serial number. If it came with the 239 cu in V-8 engine it would have a 99 prefix. The fact that you only have 4 digits in the serial number is confirmation that it originally came with a new engine, probably the 4 cylinder. Your tailgate is probably an aftermarket unit. The original Ford tailgate for 1941 should have Ford stamped into it. After market tailgates were available in the 1940s and 1950s to replace the ones that had been damaged by the hard use during the war. Tom
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| f1ford48 | -- 10-01-2010 @ 8:36 PM |
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thanks Tom- now its just the crude cut outs in the toe board for the 4 cyl. starter housing.perhaps it was a 6 cyl. the only way I'll find out is to see a bonafide 4 cyl and look at the firewall. the choke and throttle dash knobs have cables instead of linkage. also thanks for the info on the tailgate. does anyone have a V8 accelerator pedal for this pickup?
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| TomO | -- 10-02-2010 @ 10:46 AM |
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A six cylinder would have had a G in the prefix. EX: 1GA-999999 The cable set up sounds correct for a 4 cylinder. I bought some NOS ford choke and throttle cables years ago to see if I could modify them for my Mercury and there were a set that were just cables and not mixed like the 41-48 cars. Tom
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| alanwoodieman | -- 10-14-2010 @ 11:40 AM |
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Frank, I have copied the book but must have wrong e-mail for you. Let me know if you still want it.
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| f1ford48 | -- 10-14-2010 @ 8:30 PM |
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yes Alan- I -for sure want it-my email is: fjschaeffer@netzero.com my mailing address is: Frank Schaeffer. 3700 Langtry Rd. Saint Helena. Ca. 94574. We are right here where the late- Great Lorin Sorinsen used to live. all the best Frank. This message was edited by f1ford48 on 10-14-10 @ 8:39 PM
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| f1ford48 | -- 10-14-2010 @ 8:37 PM |
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I am looking for a V8 gas pedal and air cleaner for this pickup- among other parts - if anyone is willing to let these go I am glad to contribute. I thank all who helped on the decifering of the vin #s.... I have decided to just get it going as a ''driver'' and leave the body ''as original''. my thanks to a Great club and organization. Frank S. This message was edited by f1ford48 on 10-14-10 @ 8:53 PM
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| stovebolt | -- 01-12-2011 @ 8:14 AM |
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1941 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (122" wheelbase) with the 4 cylinder engine came with a 4 speed transmission as standard equipment. So your engine and transmission or transmission alone could have come from one of those trucks. This message was edited by stovebolt on 1-16-11 @ 6:23 AM
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| stovebolt | -- 01-16-2011 @ 6:20 AM |
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4 cylinder engine and transmission.
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| supereal | -- 01-16-2011 @ 10:46 AM |
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I wasn't aware that the four cylinder "tractor" engine was used in trucks larger than the pickup and panel delivery in '41. That said, I see that the 4 speed transmission is listed in the green book for 41-42 3/4 and 1 ton models with a 122" wheelbase and the 40hp four cylinder engine. Apparently, they used a 6.666 rear end gearing. There isn't much more info elsewhere. One can only imagine what driving one of these was like. We had a 9N Ford tractor with the same engine, and it was hardly strong enough to pull itself. This message was edited by supereal on 1-16-11 @ 10:58 AM
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| stovebolt | -- 01-22-2011 @ 4:42 PM |
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Here is more information on the '41 4 cylinder engine. Sorry, this version is illegible. See the following two pictures. Click on each picture, it will expand. This message was edited by stovebolt on 1-23-11 @ 4:35 AM
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| stovebolt | -- 01-22-2011 @ 4:48 PM |
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Here is more information on the '41 4 cylinder engine. This message was edited by stovebolt on 1-23-11 @ 4:36 AM
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| stovebolt | -- 01-23-2011 @ 4:29 AM |
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Here is more information on the '41 4 cylinder engine. This message was edited by stovebolt on 1-23-11 @ 4:37 AM
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| trjford8 | -- 01-23-2011 @ 8:14 AM |
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Stovebolt, great info. Adds a lot to our old Ford knowledge.
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| stovebolt | -- 01-23-2011 @ 10:23 AM |
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I'm happy to share the information I have. I like the rarer Fords like the '41-'42 4 cylinders and the '40-'41 1/2 ton chassis and cowls with purpose-built bodies, either civilian or military. If anyone has factory photos of bare '40 or '41 1/2 ton chassis with cowl I would love to see them. This message was edited by stovebolt on 1-23-11 @ 10:24 AM
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