| jyakel | -- 08-11-2019 @ 9:41 AM |
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Gentlemen, I have a very stock 1949 F-3 Ford pickup with the 8BA flathead Ford V8 engine and a 4 speed non-Synchromesh transmission on the floor. It also has the very high gear ratio in the rear ending making the top speed about 45 mph. My question is one of general understanding; why does one have to double clutch a non-Synchromesh transmission when shifting gears? What does double clutching do? John
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| carcrazy | -- 08-11-2019 @ 2:46 PM |
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Double clutching allows you to match the speed of the input gears with the speed of the output gears in the transmission. This task is handled by the synchronizers in a synchromesh transmission.
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| jyakel | -- 08-12-2019 @ 3:53 AM |
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Carcrazy, Okay, thank you for your good explanation. Sometimes I can shift gears perfectly-like butter as they say. Other times (and I don't think I am doing anything differently) it is a challenge to 'find' that next gear. Thanks Carcrazy, John
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| alanwoodieman | -- 08-12-2019 @ 12:35 PM |
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I tell people who are new to the double clutching to quit thinking about and just do it. you will get to a point where it is natural thing
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| cliftford | -- 08-12-2019 @ 12:44 PM |
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Install a tach. It will help you find that "sweet spot" that is, the right engine speed for shifting each gear.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-14-2019 @ 10:55 AM |
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hi to my memory serve me right, I did own a 51 with 3 on the tree, and shifting 2nd to 3rd was no problem first and reverse are not synchro, 1st to second, 2nd to third and third TO 4TH should be synchromesh, you might have bad synchros. the only transmission that I know of was the MODEL A and MODEL 1932 18 -B that you needed to double clutch, I would drain the trans and run a magnet though the oil to see what is picks up You could also remove the floor pan and trans top cover and look inside to see if it has syncros maybe a oil change would help hope this helps 37Ragtopman
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-14-2019 @ 11:17 AM |
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37Ragtopman, The 1932 B and 18 transmissions were synchro. The large truck 4 speeds for the early V8 years also did not have synchros. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 8-14-19 @ 11:20 AM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 08-15-2019 @ 7:55 AM |
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hi thanks for the info. I never drove one of these trucks, when did they change to a synchromesh not really what I expected, I guess ,, will have to learn to double clutch the non synchco transmission, my 2 cents 37Ragtopman
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| cliftford | -- 08-15-2019 @ 11:40 AM |
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If I'm not mistaken, the change was in 1953.
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| f1ford48 | -- 11-06-2019 @ 2:59 PM |
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thats known as a ''crash box'' it is a Warner T9 spur gear transmission. upshifting works best on mine if i do it super fast. downshifting fourth to third you blip the throttle. forget down shifting to any gear lower than third unless you are a pro...... old truckers are the best in describing how it is done. This message was edited by f1ford48 on 11-6-19 @ 3:01 PM
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| Barney | -- 11-06-2019 @ 5:26 PM |
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Hi John, I agree with 'Carcrazy's' basic, to-the-point explanation - matching input (engine speed) speed to output speed (driveshaft speed). You mentioned you usually have no problem shifting, but occasionally you have trouble. My guess is you have trouble when on a hill. When traveling uphill, you're probably more hurried to shift; when traveling downhill you're probably less hurried to shift. But it's counter-intuitive. When shifting going uphill, you need to shift at a slower rate. The truck (driveshaft) will slow down faster, thus you need to wait a bit longer for the engine speed to slow down more so to match the input/output speeds. Conversely, when shifting going downhill, the truck (driveshaft) may slow down very little and may even accelerate, so you'll need to shift quickly before the engine speed (input) slows down too much. Have fun practicing, Barney
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| jyakel | -- 04-26-2020 @ 6:34 AM |
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Hello Carcrazy, Allanwoodieman, Cliftford, 37Ragtopman, f1Ford 48, Charlie Stephens, and Barney and all that responded to my non-synchro transmission thread here. I apologize that I have not been back to visit this thread for a while but the new posts/responses from all of you are greatly appreciated. Let me pick your brains a bit more here. Here is what I know: 1. When the truck (and tranny) are cold it shifts much better. Almost like the trans oil is thicker (due to the cold) and adds a bit more coating of oil to the gears, hence shifts smoother? Possible? Not possible? Comments? 2. When the tranny warms up there is more 'slop' in the gear shifter. When shifting, I listen very carefully to the engine and the whine of the tranny (straight gear trannies do whine a lot, a sound I love by the way) but like Allanwoodieman says, I try not to think about it, I just do it, and most of the time it shifts okay. I find that if I up-shift at lower speeds everything works better. If I get to 4th gear at 20-25 mph then everything is fine. I have been told (probably by one of you) that non-synchro trannies are meant to get to 4th gear asap and then stay there all day. The high ratio rear end on my truck allows me to stay in 4th gear even as low as 10 mph-as long as I am easy on the truck, which I am. The only problem with that is that everyone else in the world is in a hurry. So my slow starting F-3 is only driven on back roads, never a principle highway. 3. Finally, Barney called this one right on the money: when I am shifting going up hill it shifts fine. When shifting going down hill is when problems arise. Sometimes I simply cannot find 4th gear when going down hill. The tranny will grind and resist any attempt to engage in 4th gear. So here is what I have done in that situation: a. I try to shift to 4th gear even sooner than normal, b. I sometimes start moving in 3rd gear (down hill remember) then quickly get to 4th gear, or c. sometimes start in 2nd gear and skip 3rd gear and go directly to 4th gear. So, comments, advice, help? Thank you, John
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| jyakel | -- 07-10-2020 @ 7:46 AM |
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The problem of hard shifting in my Ford F-3 non-synchromesh transmission has been solved. Here is what I found: 1. I listened to the good advice of fellow Early Ford V8ers that took the time to share their wisdom and expertise. (All listed above this post) 2. Like all smart old Ford owners, I took the approach of 'let's start with the easiest things first...' rather than pulling out the transmission and doing a major overhaul etc, etc. I started with a simple inspection of what I had. I don't have the equipment (or the courage) to pull out a transmission anyway. 3. Here is what I found: a.) I found the transmission case to be way low on transmission fluid. b.) The source of the transmission leak was a worn rear transmission seal. c.) I found upon draining the transmission fluid that the transmission case had a lot of sediment at the bottom of it. Man, does that transmission fluid smell! It must have been the original fluid from 1949. d.) Upon opening the transmission inspection plate I found some gears to be worn from years of driving, shifting, and wear. (See my photos below) 4. Here is what I did: a.) I cleaned the transmission case of all the sediment as best I could. b.) I installed a new rear transmission seal. Special note: James Saccoccio of Gotham Auto Parts in New York is a great source for hard to find parts for larger Ford trucks like my F-3 and bigger trucks. Contact James at sales@gothamautoparts.com. James had the exact seal I needed and shipped it promptly. c.) I had my wife slowly go through the gears while I observed the working of the transmission through the inspection hole. It was an education to see how all this works. Amazing actually. I asked Pam if she wanted to come underneath to see everything work and I'll shift the gears. She said, 'no'. d.) After installing the inspection plate and drain plug I filled the transmission with 90-140 weight transmission oil. (No leaking at the new seal) e.) Next, I adjusted the clutch peddle travel. With my wife's help (again) I asked her to call out when there was about 1" to 1 1/2" of free play before the clutch peddle gave resistance. It took about 5-6 turns inward of the clutch peddle clevis to get 1" to 1 1/2" of free play. That was a lot in my opinion-even though I had never done this before. f.) Finally, it was time for a test drive. I thought 'okay, how badly did I screw all this up?' To my surprise my truck shifted smoothly and the clutch engaged smoothly too-like butter! I couldn't believe it. So, was it the new transmission seal? Or draining the old transmission oil and refilling with 90-140 weight oil? Or adjusting the clutch? Or all the above? Not sure, but just very glad my truck now shifts without any trouble. I still have to double clutch to be sure, but sometimes I can shift without using the clutch. That is a great feeling! Thank you Early Ford V8ers for your help. John PS: It was hard to see the wear on some of my transmission gears, so I made a drawing of what I found inside the transmission case. I know there is wear, but I suspect this transmission will out last me. And right now it is working just fine.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 07-10-2020 @ 4:52 PM |
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the gears are chipped from years of not stopping completely to shift into first gear or reverse. with the F3 and no load on the truck you should be able to just use 2-3-4. If you add about a quart of Lucas oil extender to the trans (don't overfill) it will also help shifting. So you like the smell of the original Sulphur loaded gear oil--old line ford guys have our own name for it--skunk pi--!! sound like you are into the truck. I have been helping a friend with his F2 1951, it also has a four speed trans. another friend has a 1948 F1 and F3 so we have a few around here--I have a 49 F1 about ready for the road. Let us hear from you --pictures, pictures help us pass the days.
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| jyakel | -- 07-12-2020 @ 10:31 AM |
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Alanwoodieman, You have helped me many times with your kind and knowledgeable responses to several of my posts. Thank you. And thank you for the tip about Lucas oil extender. I like Lucas products. And yes, the smell of that sulfur loaded old transmission oil is a smell that will never catch on. Nasty stuff. Everyone finds their own passion in the old car hobby. As for me, I like to keep my '49 F-3 and my '50 Custom Fordor as close to original as possible. My car and truck are never going to be Dearborn award winners. I am happy with having safe, reliable, and fun weekly drivers. A few pictures enclosed, John PS: An F-3 is a hauler, so I made a fake load for the farm back (flat bed). And I made signs for a fake hauling company, 'Henry's Hauling'. All in good fun.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 07-14-2020 @ 5:42 AM |
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since you like trucks, this is my everyday ride after I retired. 1941 3/4 ton
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| jyakel | -- 07-15-2020 @ 5:11 AM |
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Alanwoodieman, That is simply a good looking truck. Thanks for sharing. John
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| f1ford48 | -- 07-19-2020 @ 12:58 AM |
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great Forum here- I had my truck out today for a ride and it ran beautifully, I too will try the lucas oil treatment. I dont think I have changed the oil in mine since I rebuilt it years ago. that gear oil smell permeates the cab after many years [in a subtle way ] especially if there is no boot on the shift tower. many folks have said [who owned an F-1 in their youth]'' wow the cab smells just like mine did" I think it is a mix of fuel , 90wt and good old dirt...heres my F-1 on the 4th of July.....
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| jyakel | -- 07-20-2020 @ 5:14 AM |
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F1Ford48, Great looking truck. And I have to agree with you, that original transmission oil smell is awful. I have a question about your truck. I always thought a '48 has chrome bars in the grill. And around the headlight bezel is the same color as the body color of the truck. But your '48 has the brushed aluminum bars and same brushed aluminum around the headlights like my '49. So is your truck a '48 or a '49? Either way, one very nice truck. John
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| alanwoodieman | -- 07-20-2020 @ 3:39 PM |
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like that grill guard!! they used to be in junk everywhere but alas no true "junk" yards left around here. my 49 has the ss grill bars, but my friend has two 48's and neither one has ss grill bars--just painted argent silver
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