| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 3:58 AM |
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I've been researching the correct process and materials for replacing the rear window seal on the '47 Merc. The '41-'48 Shop Manual as well as Van Pelt's site appears Ford-specific and no mention is made of the process for the safe removal and re-installation of the exterior stainless trim on the Merc. Also I could use recommendations on the best, most effective 'molding sealing compound' and processes for re-installation. Most videos I've watched do not recommend use of 'molding sealing compound' anywhere but the Ford processes call for it around the exterior perimeters of the seal to the body and glass to the seal. Greatly appreciate any and all input - EDIT - meant to add this link to Eastwood's process for reinserting the glass using cord and ask, other than inserting the bottom of the glass first on the Merc and working around to the top (versus the reverse process in the video) is this basically how the process works for our cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvcJ_lU_VpQ Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 6-29-16 @ 4:47 AM
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| TomO | -- 06-29-2016 @ 7:42 AM |
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The video shows how the process works, but it is backwards from the Ford procedure. Use the Ford shop manual procedure as the rubber seal is made to work with the window installed from the inside. My memory is hazy on this, but I believe that you leave the stainless trim on during removal and install it on the seal before installation. Check with Rusty Davis to make sure. I like to use the clear windshield sealer by Permatex to seal the rubber to the body and the glass to the rubber. Permatex 81730 Flowable Silicone Windshield and Glass Sealer I like to leave the rubber seal to body not sealed at the bottom, but do seal the bottom of the glass to the rubber seal. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 6-29-16 @ 8:40 AM
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 8:42 AM |
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Thanks Tom. Vince @ Dennis Carpenter echoed your recollection on the process for removal and installation of the stainless trim. I couldn't find that info anywhere and have to depend upon those who've gone before me on this one. Looks dicey to me on removal of the window without damaging the stainless but I'll give it a go. I did order the nylon coated pry bar kit from Eastwood that you recommended to me previously. I'll look for the 81730 later today - thanks for the recommendation. Do you think that same product will work to seal the very small cracks in the original windshield seal? The passenger side windshield weeped water every so slightly onto the dash above the glove box the first and only time I've washed the car (dusted and polished it ever since, never driven in rain) and I can see the seal is dried out, brittle and cracked open on that side adequate to let water in. The rear window seal is so aged and dried out it has pulled away from the body at the bottom in the middle so it has to be replaced now before I risk driving the car in rain. I do not plan to replace the windshield seal before the trip to Gettysburg and want to ensure that leak is addressed before the drive. Appreciate your thoughts &/or recommendation here as well. Thanks again Tom - Steve
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| TomO | -- 06-29-2016 @ 9:08 AM |
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Steve, I just did a search and I believe that my memory was incorrect. Supereal says that the stainless is removed before removing the seal and installed after the seal is installed in the car. Here is a link to the post. http://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=2372&keywords=rear%20window%20seal The Permatex sealer is clear and it finds the crack to seal them, so it should help your windshield leak. It is probably the seal of the glass to the rubber that has failed. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 9:51 AM |
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Wow - great catch Tom. I just finished sending you a PM and was about to walk out to the garage when I saw your reply. I'll digest Supereal's comments and get back to you and others with any further questions before starting the removal later today. Thanks again - Steve
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 10:47 AM |
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Tom/all - I see where supereal states the trim is installed after the window is in place, but I do not see where he states it is to be removed prior to removing the window. In looking at the window, seal and trim just now it is not intuitive how the trim attaches to the seal and how it can be removed before the window is removed without possibly bending or damaging it. Supereal - you out there for clarification!? Anybody have any experience here you can share with us? Steve
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 11:10 AM |
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Right, correct or not - just removed the trim in its entirety without damaging it or the window. Broke the center stainless mating clip loose from its decades old bond with each end of the trim, slid it aside in one direction, then using a plastic electronics screwdriver gently tugged out the driver's side of the trim far enough to peer inside and with a small flashlight see how it was attached to the seal. Then (and this wasn't easy) firmly but gently (figure that one out) began pulling the trim clear of the seal with the plastic screwdriver extending as far inside as possible to spread the force, left side around to the bottom center, then right side same. Clearly the original seal - looks like Ford used some sort of black sealant between the body and the seal that dried out long, long ago and detached from the rubber as the seal dried out and became brittle. Rubber underneath and in the interior is still soft and supple so the leak could have been from anywhere around the outside of the seal. Cleaning that hard-as-rock goop off the body flange looks to be challenging. Looking now at the interior and the seal against the original, undamaged, no rips or tears, no stains, no moth-holed headliner and wondering about tricks from this point on to ensure no damage to the headliner occurs. Hmmm... EDIT - am stunned but thankful to find no body or flange rust at all under the seal anywhere around the full perimeter of the window. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 6-29-16 @ 11:23 AM
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| len47merc | -- 06-29-2016 @ 2:35 PM |
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Rear window is out in one piece. Body metal not marred. Package tray and headliner unscathed. Thanks to you all for weighing in with good feedback to give this ole boy confidence to give it a go. Once everything is cleaned up it's hurry up and wait time for the seal to arrive, so... Now - any tips on how to remove the old, crusty black sealant that was put on 69 years ago without damaging paint and scratching the body window flange? Steve
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| len47merc | -- 06-30-2016 @ 5:39 AM |
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Been working the crusty old dried up black muck on the external rear window sealant flange for about an hour now with WD40 and a cut-at-an-angle wooden dowel rod. Have got about 1" almost clean. Ooopphhh. Anything else that will not harm paint while being more effective and efficient in breaking this old adhesive/sealant down is greatly appreciated. Steve
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| Kens 36 | -- 06-30-2016 @ 6:56 AM |
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Steve, Try 3M Adhesive Remover. It should be available at most auto parts stores. Will still require a lot of elbow grease, but will be better than the WD40. Ken
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| cliftford | -- 06-30-2016 @ 6:57 AM |
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Hi Steve, here are some thoughts: use a MODERATE amount of heat, like a hair dryer to soften up the adhesive, and use a small ball peen to tap on the stick, or instead of the stick, try a piece of plastic, such as an old tooth brush handle. Good luck, Gene
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| len47merc | -- 06-30-2016 @ 8:59 AM |
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Thanks Gene & Kens 36. Gave it a go with my wife's hair dryer (since I'm typing this - clearly without her knowledge) and got the metal as hot as I dared but the old sealant never softened. Perhaps I could go hotter but do not want to chance softening the headliner adhesive underneath or damaging the paint so, of to look for some 3M Adhesive Remover. Thanks again to you both - will post results later. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 07-15-2016 @ 6:55 AM |
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Follow-up and for anyone attempting to remove old window seal sealant down the road: I cut 6" and 12" long x ~1/2" wide strips of a clean old white cotton T-shirt that had be decommissioned and relegated to rag status and saturated the strip(s) with 3M Adhesive Remover 08984 (per Ken's recommendation). Making provisions to ensure none of the cleaner would enter the car and/or drip on the headliner or rear package tray, I 'pasted' either 6" (sides) or 12" (top & bottom) at a time on the old adhesive and let it set for 30 minutes each go, re-saturating after 15 minutes or so just to the point the cleaner would not drip or run. This 'soak' softened-up SOME of the depth of the old sealant each time from the dried-out, crusty material and would stay that way long enough to work some of it off. After each soaking I used a small plastic electronics screwdriver and a small nylon coated pry bar to scr*pe the now softened, very viscous and thick old sealant off. Some areas took 3-4 applications of this process to get the bulk of the old 'chunks' off. After it was basically reduced to a film and/or very thin, then using a non-abrasive scrubbing sponge with some more of the 3M Adhesive Cleaner the flange was left squeaky clean and ready for the window re-install without any adverse affect on the paint. Worked on this over 3 days in the mornings to avoid the heat of the day - took a lot of patience. Very pleased with the results - thanks to all for weighing in with your thoughts and helping here. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 7-15-16 @ 7:05 AM
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| Kens 36 | -- 07-15-2016 @ 7:15 AM |
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Steve, Thanks for the update. That process seems like it takes forever, but it is a thrill when you have success. Good luck getting your Mercury back together and ready for the trip - I'm looking forward to seeing it (and you) again in Gettysburg. Looks like it will be in good company - a little birdie tells me that there will be three '47 Mercs on the concourse. Ken
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| len47merc | -- 07-15-2016 @ 7:47 AM |
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Sounds great - look me up! What will you be driving/showing Ken? Steve
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| Kens 36 | -- 07-15-2016 @ 2:12 PM |
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Steve, 1950 Convertible - Casino Cream. Ken
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| len47merc | -- 07-15-2016 @ 2:33 PM |
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Thanks Ken - absolutely beautiful car and easy to find on the Concourse. Nice backdrop too! Here's one of the '47. Looking more forward to it every day now...see you there! Steve
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| len47merc | -- 07-17-2016 @ 1:07 PM |
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All - rear window is back in but not yet sealed. After researching the proper process and sequence from many of you here on the forum, in preparing now to seal the rubber to the body and rubber to the glass it is clear the stainless trim has to be installed as it helps to ensure the rubber seal is held tightly to the glass. Further, the sealant for this area has to be installed just prior to installing the stainless trim (cannot be done after as the rubber will be so tight to the glass that the sealant tip can not be inserted under the rubber). So the question is what is the best lubricant, that does not react adversely with rubber, will help preserve the rubber and help it remain supple and is ok to remain in the groove for the stainless trim, to use to reinstall the cleaned stainless trim onto the rubber seal most quickly and efficiently? Ivory soap as I believe supereal indicates he uses to install the window? Vaseline? Silicone? The sealant for this portion of the window (Permatex 81730 Flowable Silicone Windshield and Glass Sealer) cures relatively quickly and I want to install the now squeaky clean stainless trim as swiftly as possible into the new rubber to get the rubber seal pressed against the glass before the sealent begins to cure. Thanks - Steve
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| TomO | -- 07-18-2016 @ 8:33 AM |
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If it is difficult to install the stainless trim, you can use a silicone lube or an electrical wire pulling lube. The trim around my windshield rubber, just slipped on without any additional lubricant. The new rubber should be flexible enough so that a lube is not needed. If you do use any lubricant, use it sparingly to prevent it migrating out and causing other problems. Tom
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| anzael | -- 07-21-2016 @ 10:03 PM |
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Thank you very much! I already put in a 6v and connected to positive ground. <a herf="www.anzael.com">anzael.com</a>
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