| RAND | -- 02-17-2016 @ 6:14 PM |
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Hi there... I've developed a miss in my 50 Merc that I just cant seem to pin down It idles fine Runs fine cold But once 1/2 way warmed up it miss's Never has flat out died This is what I've done so far... 1) Changed condenser 2) Changed coil 3) Changed spark plugs 4) New points 5) Ran engine in dark looking for plug wires sparking 6) Fresh rebuilt Carb by Daytona I cant figure out why it miss's when its warm and not when its idling or cold?? Seems electrical idk?? Im also wondering if it could be the wire in the dizzy grounding out? Kinda acts like when my loose OD wire grounded out. checked that its ok Could it be fuel filters? seems electrical tho? I have a filter back by the tank and the electric pump and I have a Napa filter in the glass bowl could it be the cork gasket at the glass bowl Seems if it was fuel related it would do it all the time..No? Thanks for your suggestions, Rand
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| cliftford | -- 02-17-2016 @ 10:06 PM |
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Is this a steady miss like a cylinder not firing? If so when it's missing pull the plug wires one at a time with the engine running and see if you can narrow it down to one cylinder. It might be a valve sticking. If it's a more intermitant miss it could be fuel or ignition related.Could the dist. shaft bearings be badly worn? These things are tough to diagnose on line.Good luck. This message was edited by cliftford on 2-18-16 @ 4:08 AM
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| Tracker | -- 02-18-2016 @ 9:07 AM |
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Randy...what you describe is perfect definition of what happened to my 51 Merc earlier this year with a slight miss and gradually getting worse til it would not run at all. Suggest you pull your distributor so you can inspect the primary wire buried under the plate..it was originally covered in cloth that rots away with time & shorts out against the distributor shaft. Its an easy fix if you discover its got bare wire showing & you can make it up yourself as a single wire from dist to coil. If that wire has never been changed, bet you will find as I did that its shorting out every time you hit the accelerator when the plate advances. Tom O gave me the guidance to fix my car and I hope his advice that I'm passing on to you works as well for you as it did for me . Good luck. Let us hear how you make out. Tracker PS Sent you a glass taillight a few years back ...how did that work for you ?
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| RAND | -- 02-20-2016 @ 10:34 AM |
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Update... Today with no improvement I.. 1) Replaced the Dizzy Cap and Rotor button, Visually looked at wire in the dizzy and gave it a wiggle. I replaced that wire some time ago. 2) I also did a vacuum test and got 18 to 20 inch reading 3) Hard to determine miss at idle, seems to run fine at idle, miss's while driving in neighborhood, worse turning around in cul de sac. Never has flat out died. 4) Merc has auto choke so I cant pull the choke to give it more fuel. I did hit the mechanical fuel pump switch with no improvement. Also wiggled ignition switch To do: Pull Dizzy to inspect wire Check coil and condenser with a volt meter (how do I do that?) Change 2 fuel filters Squirts some starting fluid in carb for more fuel (hard to do while driving tho) Check plug wires with timing light, how else can I check those? Replace ignition switch? Could it be carb related? Fresh rebuilt from Daytona Any other ideas? Never has completely died or not started It feels like electrical shorting out?? but where and not at Idle?? Thanks for any ideas, Randy Rand is online now Report Post
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| carcrazy | -- 02-20-2016 @ 10:54 AM |
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There could be some small particles in your fuel system or carburetor that are temporally blocking a fuel passage. If you have solid metal core ignition wires the following won't be a problem, plug wires resistance increases with temperature. I have had carbon core ignition wires that, once they aged (about 70K miles) would go from relatively low resistance to infinite resistance when heated up. The car would idle and run fine until it heated up - about 10 or 15 minutes of running time.
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| TomO | -- 02-20-2016 @ 11:08 AM |
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Check your spark when the engine is warm and at speeds above idle. Reasons for a weak spark are coil and condenser, also the rotor and cap. You could also have an intermittent spark due to bad wire in the primary circuit, bad ignition switch or bad primary wire. A bad coil or condenser could also cause this. If your spark is OK, check the spark plugs for a lean or rich condition. Tom
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| TomO | -- 02-20-2016 @ 11:09 AM |
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Check your spark when the engine is warm and at speeds above idle. Reasons for a weak spark are coil and condenser, also the rotor and cap. You could also have an intermittent spark due to bad wire in the primary circuit, bad ignition switch or bad primary wire. A bad coil or condenser could also cause this. If your spark is OK, check the spark plugs for a lean or rich condition. Tom
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| RAND | -- 02-20-2016 @ 1:24 PM |
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Hi Tracker I didn't use the Ford reverse lights that you sent me. I was looking for the Merc lenz. I tried to pass them along to someone else but still have them om my shelf. I did finally find a Merc lenz and hooked them up to my break lights for added lighting while breaking. 6volts just arent very bright for today's drivers. Do you want them back? Thanks, Randy PS I tried to attach pictures with no luck This message was edited by RAND on 2-20-16 @ 1:27 PM
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| Tracker | -- 02-20-2016 @ 10:17 PM |
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Randy....when you say your car does fine until it heats up & then starts to miss was the xact same symptoms I had. My money is still on the primary wire ...either shorting or bad. Can't see it shorting at night. Sorry about the wrong light going out ...keep it or pass it on to someone who can use it. Hope you get to the cause of the problem .
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| TomO | -- 02-21-2016 @ 6:19 AM |
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Randy, Did the symptoms appear or get worse after the carb was rebuilt? Does it get worse turning and when you accelerate hard? Does the engine respond normally when you accelerate when standing still? Your float level could be set wrong if the answer to these questions is yes. Run the car at idle and check the fuel level in the carb by removing the top. If it is near the correct level, lower it about 1/16". If it is low, raise it about 1/16". If the answer is no, check the wire to the ignition switch for any bare spots or a loose connection. check for loose connections inside the distributor or a poor ground on the condenser. Tom
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| RAND | -- 03-06-2016 @ 7:40 PM |
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I'm thinking that it might be the wire in the dizzy? or the ignition switch? That wire was replaced quite some time ago by Joe Smiths son when Joe had his shop here in Atlanta. so its not the original wire. I'm thinking of sending the dizzy off for a rebuild or going with the *hevy conversion. What are the pros and cons? Merc is mostly stock and would like to keep it that way, but want dependability too! Did I just answer my own question? So...what are the pros and cons? Thanks Randy
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| TomO | -- 03-07-2016 @ 4:37 PM |
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Randy, I do not know the pros and cons of switching distributors. The only one that I knew of converted back to the original distributor as his problem was elsewhere and he did not see any performance improvements. Did you see my previous post? If you answer those questions, maybe I can give you direction on how to determine wher that problem is. Tom
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| RAND | -- 03-27-2016 @ 7:09 PM |
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Sorry for taking so long to get back on this. Busy doing life. Did the symptoms appear or get worse after the carb was rebuilt? (ran fine for awhile after new carb was installed) Does it get worse turning and when you accelerate hard? (no..Same) Does the engine respond normally when you accelerate when standing still? (No. seems to get worse as it warms up) Your float level could be set wrong if the answer to these questions is yes. Run the car at idle and check the fuel level in the carb by removing the top. If it is near the correct level, lower it about 1/16". If it is low, raise it about 1/16". (sorry but I'm not comfortable taking the top off) If the answer is no, check the wire to the ignition switch for any bare spots or a loose connection. check for loose connections inside the distributor or a poor ground on the condenser. ( I did look for loose wire and bad ground, but cant fugue out how to check wire under the plate? I do have the dizzy out of the car to send out to Bubba, But first I think that I need to check the ignition switch first. Merc was rewired in 1981 by my Dad so I don't think that there is any bare wires. Maybe loose? Tracker... mentioned he had the same symptoms and it ended up being the wire in the dizzy. but his got worse and completely died. Mine has never died. Randy This message was edited by RAND on 3-27-16 @ 7:14 PM
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| TomO | -- 03-28-2016 @ 7:50 AM |
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Your answers to my questions in the previous post suggest that the problem is more likely a spark condition than a fuel starvation issue. I did not mean for you to take the top off of the carburetor when the engine is running, just to take it off after it has idled for a few minutes to fill up the float bowl. One way that I check for ignition problems is to use a spark tester like the NAPA SER 606. http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/SER606 I set it to 20 and connect it to one plug and start the engine. I should see a constant blue spark at idle. If the spark is red, orange or intermittent, I start looking for a cause. Red or orange spark is usually due to a weak coil, weak condenser or low voltage going to the coil. It can also be caused by incorrect dwell. Missing spark can be caused by a bad ignition switch, poor connection at switch, coil or points, a wire that is broken inside the insulation (usually occurs near the connection, A firm tug will usually show this up), poor grounding of the points or condenser (the condenser or points should not move when you try to move them) or a bare wire grounding out occasionally. Tom
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| RAND | -- 03-28-2016 @ 6:42 PM |
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Thanks Tom... Looks like Im gonna get one of those testers from Napa and report back. Thanks again! Randy
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| RAND | -- 04-05-2016 @ 8:06 PM |
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Got the tester but haven't had any time in the garage yet...Randy
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| RAND | -- 04-09-2016 @ 3:13 PM |
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Today I was finally able to hook up the spark tester that you suggested...very light blue spark at idle. and a diffident miss with the engine reved up. See video I attached...if it works. I'm thinking that it might be the ignition switch? Key can wiggle a bit in the switch too! Any idea how to remove the ignition switch? and where I can get a new one? I'm disappointed that I wont be able to use my original keys any more =/ I'll keep you posted.... Tkx for your help, Randy This message was edited by RAND on 4-9-16 @ 3:16 PM
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| RAND | -- 04-09-2016 @ 3:39 PM |
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try again video
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| RAND | -- 04-09-2016 @ 3:50 PM |
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Somebody please delete those video attachments I can email it...but cant get it to work here Thank you, Randy
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| TomO | -- 04-10-2016 @ 7:49 AM |
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Randy, the ignition switch and lock cylinder are 2 different parts. You can replace the ignition switch and keep your lock cylinder. I don't think your problem is the switch. I would like you to try the test again with a reduced spark gap on the tester. Reduce the gap by a couple of turns and retry the test. I have sent you a PM Tom
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| TomO | -- 04-15-2016 @ 8:14 AM |
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Randy, Your spark looks weak in the video that you Emailed me. First check the spark plugs for the correct gap of .025" and clean plugs Next check the Primary circuit resistance by connecting a voltmeter COM lead to the NEG post of the battery and the POS lead to the Battery or - lead of the coil. Remove the distributor cap and bump the starter until the points are closed. Turn on the ignition switch and read the meter. It should read 0.2 Volts or less. Turn the ignition switch on and off several times. The meter reading should be the same every time if the switch is good. Move the leads to check the primary resistance from the coil to the points. The COM lead on the DIST or + terminal of te coil and the POS lead on the points. The reading should be 0.1 or lower. If any reading is out of specs, move the POS lead to isolate the problem. I would use a dwell meter to check the dwell at idle and at all rpms up to 2,00 rpm. The dwell should be set at 26 degrees and not vary more than 2 degrees as the rpm is increased. Next test the distributor ground circuit by connecting the com lead of the ohmmeter to the DIST terminal of the coil and the POS lead to a good engine ground. The meter should read a short. Move the point plate to advance the spark and watch the meter, If the meter flickers, check the wire going to the points and the grounding wire inside the distributor. Check that the condenser is firmly mounted to the the point plate. If it can be moved in any direction, it will not have a goof ground. Check the rotor and cap for corrosion or burnt contacts. I would also do a cylinder balance test by removing one plug wire at a time and notice if the engine slows the same amount for each plug. I any one or more plugs do not slow the engine the same as the others, replace the plug and check the wire. Tom
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| RAND | -- 04-16-2016 @ 9:41 PM |
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Thanks Tom that's some great information not only for me but others as well. I'll let you know what I find out when I have time to get back at it again . Tks again, Randy
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| RAND | -- 04-28-2016 @ 6:25 PM |
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Hi Tom, Haven't had much garage time....this is what I've found. What do you think? ignition switch? Thanks..Randy Your spark looks weak in the video that you Emailed me. Do I need to send another video? First check the spark plugs for the correct gap of .025" and clean plugs yes Next check the Primary circuit resistance by connecting a voltmeter COM lead to the NEG post of the battery and the POS lead to the Battery or - lead of the coil. Remove the distributor cap and bump the starter until the points are closed. Turn on the ignition switch and read the meter. It should read 0.2 Volts or less. Turn the ignition switch on and off several times. The meter reading should be the same every time if the switch is good. Jumps around from.84 to1.35 Move the leads to check the primary resistance from the coil to the points. The COM lead on the DIST or + terminal of te coil and the POS lead on the points. The reading should be 0.1 or lower. 0.1 to 0.2 If any reading is out of specs, move the POS lead to isolate the problem. ? I would use a dwell meter to check the dwell at idle and at all rpms up to 2,00 rpm. The dwell should be set at 26 degrees and not vary more than 2 degrees as the rpm is increased. Where can I pick up a good dwell meter? Next test the distributor ground circuit by connecting the com lead of the ohmmeter to the DIST terminal of the coil and the POS lead to a good engine ground. The meter should read a short. 014 Move the point plate to advance the spark and watch the meter, If the meter flickers, check the wire going to the points and the grounding wire inside the distributor. No change Check that the condenser is firmly mounted to the the point plate. If it can be moved in any direction, it will not have a goof ground. Tight Check the rotor and cap for corrosion or burnt contacts. New from Napa I would also do a cylinder balance test by removing one plug wire at a time and notice if the engine slows the same amount for each plug. I any one or more plugs do not slow the engine the same as the others, replace the plug and check the wire. Did not do This message was edited by RAND on 4-28-16 @ 6:27 PM
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| TomO | -- 04-29-2016 @ 7:15 AM |
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Haven't had much garage time....this is what I've found. What do you think? ignition switch? Thanks..Randy Your switch looks questionable. Your spark looks weak in the video that you Emailed me. Do I need to send another video? NO First check the spark plugs for the correct gap of .025" and clean plugs yes Next check the Primary circuit resistance by connecting a voltmeter COM lead to the NEG post of the battery and the POS lead to the Battery or - lead of the coil. Remove the distributor cap and bump the starter until the points are closed. Turn on the ignition switch and read the meter. It should read 0.2 Volts or less. Turn the ignition switch on and off several times. The meter reading should be the same every time if the switch is good. Jumps around from.84 to1.35 That looks like a problem, You may be able to disassemble the switch and clean it, if you cannot find a good replacement. Move the leads to check the primary resistance from the coil to the points. The COM lead on the DIST or + terminal of te coil and the POS lead on the points. The reading should be 0.1 or lower. 0.1 to 0.2 This could be your meter or slight pitting on the points. If any reading is out of specs, move the POS lead to isolate the problem. ? I would use a dwell meter to check the dwell at idle and at all rpms up to 2,00 rpm. The dwell should be set at 26 degrees and not vary more than 2 degrees as the rpm is increased. Where can I pick up a good dwell meter? I don’t know a good source for a dwell meter at this time. I don’t like the digital ones as they seem to jump all over when the engine is running. Stay away from the older professional meters, as most of them used mercury batteries that cannot be bought now. Dwell meters show up on E-Bay and Amazon sells a new Actron, but I do not have any idea of the quality of it. Next test the distributor ground circuit by connecting the com lead of the ohmmeter to the DIST terminal of the coil and the POS lead to a good engine ground. The meter should read a short. 014 This reading could be a short, depending on your meter. Move the point plate to advance the spark and watch the meter, If the meter flickers, check the wire going to the points and the grounding wire inside the distributor. No change Check that the condenser is firmly mounted to the the point plate. If it can be moved in any direction, it will not have a goof ground. Tight Check the rotor and cap for corrosion or burnt contacts. New from Napa I would also do a cylinder balance test by removing one plug wire at a time and notice if the engine slows the same amount for each plug. I any one or more plugs do not slow the engine the same as the others, replace the plug and check the wire. Did not do I tried formatting my replies in red, but this Forum software will not allow any formatting. Tom
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| RAND | -- 04-29-2016 @ 4:15 PM |
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Thanks Tom! Yeah I tried to answere in red as well I did find a NOS switch Getting that bugger out has me a little worried. Is there a way to by pass the ignition switch to see if that's the problem? All I need now is some time Tks again! Randy This message was edited by RAND on 4-29-16 @ 4:16 PM
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| TomO | -- 04-30-2016 @ 7:20 AM |
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You can connect the wires from the old switch to another switch and try it. The instructions to remove the switch are: Remove ground cable from battery Remove the wires from the 3 terminals Remove the bulb assembly clipped to the switch body. With the key removed from the lock, grasp the rear of the switch and press it towards the dash while turning counter clockwise 1/4 turn. Switc will snap loose from panel. I will try to post the page with the instructions later. Tom
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| RAND | -- 05-12-2016 @ 4:36 PM |
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I still haven't had time to mess with this =( Does your instruction sheet also tell you how to remove the key tumbler too? I would really like to still be able to use my original keys Thanks for your continual help! Randy
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| TomO | -- 05-13-2016 @ 7:21 AM |
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Hi Randy, I got busy and forgot to post the instructions. They come from the 1949-1951 Lincoln Mercury Overhaul Manual. It is available in reprint or CD from Rock Auto and in reprint form from Amazon. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,1949,mercury,3.7l+225cid+v8,1345812,literature,repair+manual,10335 Tom
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| RAND | -- 05-24-2017 @ 7:27 PM |
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***update*** I cant beleave that if has been exactly a year since my first post on my problem with the engine miss =/ so...I sent off my dizzy to Bubba for a rebuild, got it rebuilt from him and put in some fresh Champion H10c's recommended by him and problem solved. He said primary wire was shorting out with a bunch of plain old wear and tear on the ol dizzy. Seems to run very good in the garage but I still cant drive the Merc due to messed up steering column shift linkage. With my newly Daytona rebuild carb and now rebuilt dizzy I'm ready to cruise. errr wait I cant shift = no cruising...darn. I have to get busy on that! I have all the parts just no time. Anyways....I highly recommend both of the above mentioned vendors. And thank all of you here that have helped me. One more thing...Ive always used Castrol 10w 30 but am considering Valvoline VR1 20w50 racing oil recommend by that guy at H and H Flatheads.....I don't mean to start a argument but Thoughts please Thanks again, Randy This message was edited by RAND on 5-24-17 @ 7:32 PM
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| TomO | -- 05-25-2017 @ 6:50 AM |
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Glad that your miss has been solved. The flathead engines do not require the extra wear additives in the racing oil, but using it will not harm the engine, just your pocketbook. I prefer the 10W-30 oil. I believe that the thinner oil lubricates better and helps keep the engine cooler. Tom
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| RAND | -- 05-25-2017 @ 5:13 PM |
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If it aint broke don't fix it right?! All I've ever used since I rebuilt my Flatty over 30 years ago has always been Castrol 10W30. I think that I'll continue to use it! Thanks Tom!
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