| len47merc | -- 01-03-2016 @ 8:48 AM |
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The horn ring centerpiece medallion on my 47 is just loose enough in the ring to have a very minor but noticeable and annoying (for the driver) vibration sound at specific harmonics/rpms. The 'looseness' is so slight as to be almost imperceptible to the fingers and the medallion is more than adequately secure to not rotate. Before I take a tooth pick and place a drop of Super Glue at ~ 3 points around the perimeter to secure the medallion I appreciate your experience and advice in this regard. Of concern is whether any particular adhesive, including Super Glue, may adversely react with the medallion itself, and perhaps a better, more effective and permanent solution exists. Thanks in advance - Steve
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| cliftford | -- 01-03-2016 @ 5:16 PM |
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len47merc: Here's what I would do: disconnect horn wire, remove horn ring[ press down and turn counter clock wise]then remove the medialian and put some silicone sealer under it, let dry and re install, that should do it. That shouldn't do any damage.
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| len47merc | -- 01-03-2016 @ 7:42 PM |
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Thanks cliftford - I like your solution much better and will take your advice later this week. Btw - is the reason for disconnecting the horn wire to simply isolate the horn electrically from the battery, or is there a another more sinister 'gotcha' I've yet to experience? Easier on my creaking old back ya know to simply disconnect the battery. Steve
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| cliftford | -- 01-03-2016 @ 8:23 PM |
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len47 merc my suggestion of disconnecting the horn was just so you don't bother the neighbors or scare the cats off. You might advertise for a handle on the efv8 classifieds. Good luck and happy new year.
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| len47merc | -- 01-04-2016 @ 5:06 AM |
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10-4 - thought that was case. I posted an ad for the handle in classifieds yesterday afternoon. As you say, looks like they are available - just have to ensure the correct version/design as two variants were apparently used during these years. My Thanks again cliftford and All the Best for a Prosperous, Safe and Happy 2016 to you as well! Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-04-2016 @ 7:25 AM |
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cliftford/all - this horn ring is so stiff that when pressing down and attempting to rotate counter-clockwise I'm concerned it will break. Am using my thumbs near the center on the horizontal arms of the horn to minimize the potential for breakage but this thing is holding firm, at least with the amount of rotational pressure I've applied so far. Should it be easy to rotate counter-clockwise or is it tough enough to withstand the apparent degree of umphhh required to turn it? Have never removed one of these before. Thanks - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-4-16 @ 7:26 AM
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| cliftford | -- 01-04-2016 @ 11:06 AM |
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Steve: here is how I do it: I press down hard on the center of the ring with the palm of one hand. Then with the other hand I grasp the outer rim and work it back and forth until I can turn it c. clockwise about 1/8 of a turn and the spring will push it out. The trick is to press the ring all the way down.
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 5:34 AM |
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cliftford & Tom - had my 25 year old son (6' 2", 190 lbs) hold the steering wheel with his left hand and press firmly down on the center of the horn ring medallion with his right (with so much pressure he was slightly trembling). I held the horn ring at 3:30 and 9:30 with each hand (just south and north, right and left respectively, of the steering wheel and horn ring spokes) and with all the force I thought the ring could stand without breaking tried to rotate it counter clockwise, nudging it back and forth as well as you suggested cliftford. Man this thing is not budging. Perhaps the horn ring is tougher than I think but I'm giving it significant pressure - believe I'd throw up if it broke though. Any other suggestions? Heat? PB Blaster, WD40 or some other spray lubricant under the ring (nothing that will react with other materials - assume neither of these would), other? Btw, the horn ring will rotate ever-so-slightly but less than ~1/16th or so revolution counter clockwise - not enough for 1 spoke of the horn ring on each side to clear the steering wheel spoke. Assuming also as Tom referenced in the door handle discussion that the rubber piece is now so brittle from age that it is not compressing - ? It sounds and feels though when pressing the horn ring down that it is bottoming-out against some very hard and firm surface (at this point perceived to be the bottom of the well molded into the steering wheel for the center of the horn ring). Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-5-16 @ 5:42 AM
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| TomO | -- 01-05-2016 @ 8:07 AM |
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Steve, you should feel the button and ring move down about 3/16" and then should be able to rotate it. If you can't get that much movement, you can try dribbling glycerin around the opening to soften the rubber. Let it soak for 3-4 weeks, adding a little every couple of days. This process is messy and doesn't always work. Heat from a hair dryer might also work, but I would be afraid of damaging the plastic. Other suggestions are silicone spray, MMO and vinegar. These all require sealing the area for 7-14 days. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 8:55 AM |
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Thanks Tom. I get the ~3/16" of movement downward when pressing on the center of the ring - just not able to rotate it. I've some silicone spray as well as glycerin and will given your suggestion a try today after covering the upholstery & dash. MMO - interesting. Vinegar - new one on me there - combination of that with the moth balls should really set the wife over the top! I too am worried about the effect of heat and/or potential chemical reactions on/with the medallion which is why I'm asking for experienced advice here. I broke one original item early on in the preservation process due to impatience and then unwillingness to ask questions - bad lesson to learn that way you know. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 9:56 AM |
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Ok - a picture is worth a 1,000 words so I'll post the equivalent of 4,000 in hopes the pics may help someone else going here for the first time, and will ask a follow-up question with each of the last two pics. Tom - the silicone appears to may been responsible for doing the trick but it still took quite a push and when it popped free I thought was broken. Thankfully no though. The rubber washer is still soft and pliable. First pic of the back of the horn ring follows. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 9:58 AM |
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Second pic. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 10:07 AM |
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Third pic with questions: Per cliftford's suggestion of putting silicone sealer under the medallion to stop the annoying vibration this discussion is about, does the medallion simply press out from the back of the horn ring and press back in? Are there any brittleness or cracking concerns to be addressed if this is the case? Any proven processes for removing/reinstalling without damage if this is the case? Or cliftford, was your idea to simply place 2-3 dollops or a ring of silicone around the perimeter on the backside between the ring of the horn with the screw mounts without removing the medallion? Does anyone have any experience with silicone on the backside of these medallions that supports there being no reaction or adverse effects on the plastic or finish? Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 10:31 AM |
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4th pic with questions. Upon obtaining this car, the horn wire was found to be broken at the base of the steering column requiring it to be cleaned, shortened a bit, soldered and then heat shrink tubing applied to seal it. When the horn ring popped off today from the force of the spring the length of wire you see in the pic is all that was exposed and limited the amount of space available to remove the screw and as well the spring was still partially compressed due to the horn travel being limited by the length of wire shown. I am not sure whether this is the normal full extent of the wire travel that should be expected or if the increased diameter of the heat shrink tubing from the earlier repair bound up the wire at the bottom of the steering column (have not gotten under the car yet to check). The wire does not push back into the steering column, at least not with the cursory effort I gave it initially. Questions: Should the horn wire slide in and out of the steering column from the interior side easily and accordingly should more wire have been exposed when removing the ring? Should all of the wire shown be pushed back into the steering column or is it supposed to be left curled in a loop under the horn ring? And lastly, the screw from the horn wire fell out into the steering wheel 'well' when removing and I could not find a lock washer and/or determine if a star or regular lock washer existed originally or not - anybody know? Trying to keep the Rouge Class interior as pure as possible on the last question (for my personal satisfaction anyway - obviously this will never be seen by a judge). From what I can tell this horn ring appears never to have been removed. The prior owner who purchased the car in the 60's and parked/long-term stored it in the mid-70's indicates he never removed it. Thanks guys - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-5-16 @ 10:46 AM
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 10:35 AM |
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Re-posting 4th pic - never can seem to predict what orientation pics will post. Thanks again guys for any and all support on the questions in the 3th and 4th pics above, as well as all your excellent previous advice and support. Steve
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| cliftford | -- 01-05-2016 @ 11:03 AM |
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Hi Steve, Glad to hear you got the ring off. The suggestions I made were based on my car, a 48 Ford,on which the ring is obvisly different than a merc. On mine, the medallian is held in place by a ring with 3 screws. I was thinking of removing the ring and putting a little silicon under it. Also mine does not have the rubber ring, the spring tension holds it in place. So I guess we were comparing apples and oranges. Good luck and best wishes for the new year.
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 11:12 AM |
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Thanks cliftford - after reading your last reply I looked again at the back of the horn ring and see that the medallion for this Merc is not snapped in but is held in place by a ring secured with 3 very small bend tabs that insert through the metal of the horn and are bent outwards - I did not see this before in my initial macro look. A spot of silicone on each of those should do the trick and not come in contact with the back of the medallion. cliftford/Tom/all - can these horn rings be safely bent/reshaped or are they pot metal brittle? Clearly back in the 40's, 50's or 60's someone 'stood' on the bottom of the horn ring and bent it slightly toward the floor - was wondering if this can safely be bent back up or whether work hardening likely has made this a high risk venture. Appreciate any thoughts on the earlier wire questions as well. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-5-16 @ 11:20 AM
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| cliftford | -- 01-05-2016 @ 11:24 AM |
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Steve, I believe the ring is pot metal, at least on a ford it is. Any attempt to straighten it would be highly risky in my opinion. you will want to replace the wire. Most old ford v8 parts dealers should carry them. This message was edited by cliftford on 1-5-16 @ 11:27 AM
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 11:43 AM |
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Yeah cliftford - as I thought on the pot metal. It's the original so I'll keep it and enjoy it as is. The bend in the bottom of the ring is not too significant and is not noticeable to most anybody but the owner (me) anyway. On the wire - I confirmed my earlier repair and the heat shrink tubing had bound up in the bottom of the steering column. Should any the of exposed wire be left in a curled bend under the horn ring or was it intended that all of it be fed back into the steering column when replacing the horn ring? Also, do you recall if your '48 had a lock washer on the horn wire screw? Thanks - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-5-16 @ 11:50 AM
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| cliftford | -- 01-05-2016 @ 12:03 PM |
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Mac's has the horn wire you need, part no.32-10985-2. This fastens to the horn ring with an eye connector and goes down through the column, with bullet connector on the other end. As i recall it did have a lock washer. The excess length should be pulled [not tightly] out the bottom. This message was edited by cliftford on 1-5-16 @ 12:57 PM
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| len47merc | -- 01-05-2016 @ 2:05 PM |
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Got it - thanks again cliftford. Steve
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| TomO | -- 01-06-2016 @ 7:39 AM |
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Steve, The horn wire should have about 1 ohm resistance to prevent shocks when you blow the horn and are trying to be casual with your left arm holding the roof on. The silicone probably lubricated the parts so that they could move. The horn ring is pot metal and can be bent back with some heat, but I would not advise you to do this. It is very tricky. If you ever decide to re-chrome the ring, it can be straightened at that time. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 01-06-2016 @ 10:36 AM |
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Thanks Tom. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-06-2016 @ 5:00 PM |
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Thoughts on lubricating the three fingers of the back of the horn ring before reinstalling appreciated, including recommendations for lubricant if appropriate. Steve
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| TomO | -- 01-07-2016 @ 6:53 AM |
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Steve, any petroleum based lubricant will destroy the rubber cushion. The horn should not require ant lubricant. After you replace the horn wire, you will probably never remove the ring until you decide to restore the car. That maybe never. If you do have to remove it again, you can still use the silicone spray for any need lubricant. Tom
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