| 682bear | -- 02-27-2024 @ 12:48 PM |
|
This is an addition to my other thread 'Engine Running Rich'. I ended that thread by saying that I had sent my carburetor to Charlie for a rebuild. I got it back a couple of weeks ago, and finally found time to reinstall it today. The car runs much better... but still not good... I started pulling the spark plugs and testing the compression on all cylinders.... the compression is the same between all cylinders... no dead cylinders. However, I did discover that the back plug on the drivers side doesn't look like it has ever fired... A quick check proves it... it isn't firing at all... The distributor is a rebuilt diving helmet from Third Gen Automotive with less than three hours run time. The condenser was replaced at the same time. I'm guessing that I have a plug wire issue... Any information or advice on checking the wires would be appreciated... the issue would almost have to be where the wire connects to the distributor cap...? How would I go about testing that? How difficult is it to replace the wires? Thanks...! -Dave
|
|
| 682bear | -- 02-27-2024 @ 12:49 PM |
|
Sorry, I should have mentioned it is a 1940 Fordor with a 59A engine... -Dave
|
|
| carcrazy | -- 02-27-2024 @ 4:09 PM |
|
Inserting the #8 spark plug wire back into the distributor requires that you first remove the left hand (driver's side) distributor cap assembly from the distributor. Next remove the O-Ring that retains the outer cap to the inner cap so you can separate the two caps. The inner cap has four female terminals inside it. You want to insert the longest wire on the left side of the engine (black with yellow tracer) into the terminal hole marked with numbers 8 and 2. Make sure the wire is fully engaged into that terminal before joining the two caps back together and reinstalling the O-Ring. Note that there is a gasket that fits between the two caps. Place the cap assembly back on the distributor and retain it with the retainer bail (wire).
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 02-27-2024 @ 4:33 PM |
|
I might suggest you remove the tube and wires with the caps intact. Test for continuity between the terminal and the end of the wire. If the continuity is not good, then go ahead and tear that assembly apart and make darn certain each and every wire is firmly seated in the terminal plate. Carcrazy has offered good advice and from what you are sharing, the wire or the seating of the wire or the terminal plate are at fault. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
|
|
| 682bear | -- 02-28-2024 @ 11:04 AM |
|
Ok, I removed the driver side assembly intact per Kube and laid it out on the bench... I've shined the contacts on the inner cap up and cleaned the oxidation out of the spark plug clips on the wires. Using a digital multimeter, I'm getting 1.4 ohms on wire #8, 0.3 ohms on wire #7, 0.4 ohms on #6, and #5 is showing no continuity. On further inspection, I've realized that someone has replaced the connector on #5 (picture below)... the wire is protruding from the insulation inside the connector, but is not long enough to touch the connector. I'm assuming that, when installed onto the spark plug, the copper wire was held against the end of the plug. I carefully seperated the two halves of the cap... all four wires are still in position and are held tightly... I didn't try to remove them, I just pulled on each one enough to determine that it wasn't loose. I've read that these wires are supposed to be color coded with a tracer... as mentioned by Carcrazy... but these wires are all solid black and the plastic (or rubber) insulation on them has hardened enough to make them difficult to deal with. I think it's probably time to look at new wires... I would guess that they need to be a small diameter in order to work them through the steel tube they are routed in... 7mm maybe? Where is the best place to buy these to be sure of getting the correct diameter? Thanks- Dave
|
|
| carcrazy | -- 02-28-2024 @ 2:54 PM |
|
Many of the vendors report these wires as being "out of stock. One source that currently has them in stock is Dennis Carpenter. You can access his website under the Vendors section of this website. The part number for this wire set is 78-12259.
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-04-2024 @ 10:33 AM |
|
Ok... I'll need some advice on this... I've installed a new set of plug wires that I ordered from 3rd gen... double and triple checked that they are in the correct order... and checked all 8 wires for continuity from the distributor caps to the spark plug terminals... Everything looks good... mounted both sides back to the engine and cranked the car... It runs better... but still has a miss that got worse as the engine warmed up. I checked all 8 plugs for fire by holding a screwdriver to the head and moving the shank up to the plug terminals. I only managed to get a decent spark on three plugs. I shut it off, then pulled the plugs... #8 still doesn't look like it has ever fired (pic below)... WTH? I've double checked continuity between the cap and plug... it tests good. The distributor is a 3rd Gen rebuild with maybe an hour on it... the condenser was replaced at the same time. I still have the distributor that I took off... do I need to reinstall it and see what happens? Do I need to start looking at getting the coil rewound? Also, the engine at idle (@480 RPM) is showing a fluctuating 10-11 on the vacuum guage... and the idle mixture screws have no effect on how it runs... I assume that means a vacuum leak, but I can't seem to find where it might be... I've just had Charlie Schwendler rebuild the carb also. The frustrating thing is that it was running extremely well before installing new water pumps... and hasn't run well enough to drive since. I can't figure out what I scr*w*d up replacing the pumps! -Dave
|
|
| 51504bat | -- 06-04-2024 @ 11:28 AM |
|
Don't assume that the new condenser you just installed isn't defective. And the problem isn't limited to flatheads. The condenser in the Buba converted Chevy distributor in my 8ba died. I replaced the one that came with the unit several years ago when I did a complete tune up. Luckily I saved the original Buba unit because the Standard brand unit failed just the other day. I reinstated the condenser that came with the distributor and all was well. But wait it gets worse. Being a slow learner I bought a new Standard brand condenser cause new is better, right? Well the new Hecho en Mexico unit died less than a week later as I was pulling into a swap meet. A buddy was selling NOS Standard ignition parts made in USA. Installed one of the condensers he had and problem fixed. Point is never assume an ignition part is good just because it's new. ______________ No signature
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 06-04-2024 @ 7:44 PM |
|
let me add something to look for--bad or dried up rotor buttons--with a steel shaft going thru the helmut dizzy rotor button I have had problems with the shaft shorting out the button. I always place two pieces of shrink tape-one on top of another on the shaft before putting the shaft thru the rotor button
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 06-05-2024 @ 7:26 AM |
|
Plug wire resistance on #8 is too high. 1.4 Ohms seems low but it is about 4X the resistance of some others. You want to see about 0.3-0.4 Ohm. Solder the wires to the terminals. Have you checked the top of the distributor vacuum brake to see if the large hex is tight? You have to search for the vacuum leak. Best to do this at idle with the vacuum gauge on the wiper port of the intake manifold. Should have a steady approximate 20 reading. The carburetor idle mixture adjustment screws should make a big difference once you have the proper vacuum and all the plugs are working, the idle mixture will also effect vacuum. Swap the plug that is not firing to another cylinder. Engine cylinders are front to rear starting on the passenger side 1-2-3-4 then the drivers side 5-6-7-8 front to rear. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 6-5-24 @ 7:48 AM
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 06-05-2024 @ 3:53 PM |
|
hi a long shot, but did you try looking for a intake manifold gasket leaking ? try using carburetor cleaner spray, just a little at a time and see if the engine runs different, between the intake and the engine block hope this helps 37 RAGTOPMAN, ,Maine
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-06-2024 @ 1:43 AM |
|
I appreciate all the responses... I'm fairly sure that I have a vacuum leak, but I think I really need to get the ignition issue fixed first, then work on the vacuum. To recap: I have installed a new set of plugs, new plug wires, rebuilt distributor, and new condenser. Currently, plug number 8 is not firing. That is verified... it is not firing at all. The resistance on all the wires... including #8... is good, but #8 is not firing. It isn't a bad plug... there is no fire getting to the plug. Is this typical of a condenser issue? I wouldn't think that a weak coil would only cause an issue with only one plug... I still have the distributor that I took off... I think I'll swap it back on and see if that changes anything. I've also ordered a new condenser from NAPA, but it won't be here until next week. -Dave This message was edited by 682bear on 6-6-24 @ 12:19 PM
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 06-06-2024 @ 5:26 AM |
|
Not a condenser issue, condenser will effect all cylinders. Make sure the inner distributor caps are seated correctly into the distributor housings, all of the perimeter of the cap should fit into the casting.
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-06-2024 @ 9:14 AM |
|
Yes... just double checked how the caps fit... they are good... -Dave This message was edited by 682bear on 6-6-24 @ 12:19 PM
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-06-2024 @ 12:05 PM |
|
Ok... I swapped the old distributor and condenser back in... The car cranks and runs very good... so, to determine whether the distributor or condenser is causing the problem, I then swapped the new condenser back in... It still runs good... so the newly rebuilt distributor is the issue... While I had the plug wire/ cap assemblies out to swap the distributors, I looked at the gap between the rotor and the inner cap contacts. There is a significant gap there... much bigger than what I think it should be... (pictures below). The gaps between the rotor and contacts are smaller in the old distributor... maybe 2/3s that wide... could that be the problem? I guess I'll try to contact the company that rebuilt the distributor and see what they say about it... The old distributor still works good, but the points are nearing the end of their useable life. I'll need to have a rebuilt distributor at some point... one that works. -Dave This message was edited by 682bear on 6-6-24 @ 12:20 PM
|
|
| carcrazy | -- 06-06-2024 @ 12:14 PM |
|
Yes! You have found the problem. From all that you had described prior to you last post, it became apparent that the problem had to be either your rotor or the inner cap on the left side of the distributor. If you continue to have ignition problems, my advice would be to install a new rotor and new inner distributor caps to fix the issues for good.
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-06-2024 @ 12:18 PM |
|
Also... since I managed to get the car running smoothly... I hooked up my vacuum guage and adjusted the idle screws. I'm now getting a very smooth vacuum that is between 19.5 and 20... -Dave
|
|
| 682bear | -- 06-06-2024 @ 12:29 PM |
|
So... are the new inner caps and rotors (such as the ones that 3rd gen sells) decent quality replacements, or are they 'maybe useable' items like a lot of new parts they sell these days? Also, can the rotor be replaced without messing with the timing and point settings? Or is this something I need to have a distributor rebuilder do? Thanks for all the help! -Bear
|
|
| carcrazy | -- 06-06-2024 @ 1:15 PM |
|
The rotor and the inner distributor caps are available from C&G. As for the quality of the parts, you would have to ask them what the source is for their parts. You may be able to install the rotor yourself but it would be best to have an experienced distributor rebuilder do it to set up the distributor properly and verify its operation on a machine. https://cgfordparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=distributor%20rotor&finder%5B1%5D=4776&finder%5B2%5D=4874&finder%5B3%5D=5058&find=find
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 06-07-2024 @ 6:59 AM |
|
hi glad you found the problem with running rich, who ever rebuilt that distributer, was at falt using the ROTOR for sure, the contact is all burnt up, must have a lot of arcing, who did that work ??? would be interesting, Skip Haney would never send that out of his shop, you should be able to change the rotor with out setting the points, you will have to remove the snap ring on the back of dist then pull the shaft out the rotor then can be removed, if you have old distributer use it as a learning to take apart first, my 2 cents 37Ragtopman, Maine
|
|
| sarahcecelia | -- 06-09-2024 @ 9:39 AM |
|
The easy is test is to Swap it out with a plug wire near so it is long enough to reach that plug; and see f you get spark with it! If you do; the wire has something that I hereby explain wrong with it!! You could also test it with a test light; one end with power to it and test light on the other end; if the test light lights up the wire is good; if not then the problem is something wrong w/the distributor cap; or the wire! Corrosion on that contact? Dirty contact on the wire end; or ends. are they clean and shiny??A little 400 sand paper will fix that! Alll contacts must be clean!! Regards, Steve Lee
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 06-11-2024 @ 4:27 AM |
|
Mark the timing marks and return them to the same location when done replacing the rotor. Also suggest adding a wrap or two of electrical tape, on the rotor shaft, under the rotor before installing new. Ford does have a Spec. for the gap between rotor and cap contacts 0.0125"
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=16931 |