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Carcheologist
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-- 05-19-2021 @ 7:30 AM
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Does anyone have a clear COLOR copy of the '40 Deluxe wiring schematic? I noticed a pair of wires ;under the dash that were not connected to anything - they are joined together by a ring terminal and looked to be either faded green with black tracer or faded yellow with black tracer. They split off from the main underdash harness bundle slightly to the right of the instrument cluster. I have checked the schematics available and can't seem to identify the wires by color or where they should be connected. Appreciate any help.
Mike in Texas
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40 Coupe
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 5:39 AM
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All of the schematics and wiring diagrams for the early Fords are black and white. It's going to be difficult to find the purpose of the wires. As you can see the wire color changes over time. Check under the dash in the area of the wires and look for a device that is missing wires such as the dash light rheostat.
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kubes40
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 7:12 AM
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I can only hazard a guess but suspect, as 40coupe has responded, the two wires are for the rheostat. The rheostat, when aged, either stops working completely or works poorly and causes the dash lights to be dimmer than their "normal" dim.
Are there wires going to the rheostat at this time?
I might suggest, based on your description of your harness, that you replace it. Dennis Carpenter offers a nice quality harness with an easy to follow schematic at a very fair price.
Old harnesses scare me.
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 7:36 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. Maybe a little clarification would help. The harness was replaced when we restored the car 25 years ago, so it's still very flexible and not old and brittle - you can make out most of the wire colors just fine too. Secondly, the wires going to the rheostat/gauge panel dimmer are blue; both are connected to the dimmer and the dimmer works correctly. The wires I'm seeing are either faded green/black tracer or faded yellow/black tracer and are joined together with a common ring terminal, just can't identify where they come from or where they should connect.
P. S.
Kube, got your '40 book on Tuesday and it's a real treasure! I'm really enjoying knowing more about'40 Fords. As my handle implies, I'm a nut for automotive minutiae and your book is on target. Great job!
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kubes40
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 7:53 AM
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Thanks for the kind words re the book. Much obliged to ya.
Might you be able to provide a photo of the wires and their location? Can you peal back the woven covering "down the line" a bit to see the true (non-faded) colors of the wires?
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
This message was edited by kubes40 on 5-20-21 @ 7:53 AM
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TomO
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 8:29 AM
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I would start by checking which features work and don't work. If all of the features work, then I would look to see if additional wires or features like turn signals were added and these wires are not needed..
I don't remember any green wire with a black tracer, but there are a few yellow wires with black tracer under the dash.
Tom
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 9:51 AM
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Photo of mystery wires attached.
As mentioned, they look to me like yellow with a black tracer and they are joined together with a common ring terminal (came that way on the harness). Also, they are "HOT" when the ignition switch is flipped on. I haven't noticed anything electrically on the car that doesn't work properly and they are too short to reach the circuit breaker. Other thoughts?
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JayChicago
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 10:16 AM
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Heres my guess:
I think TomO's idea makes sense. Since this is a replacement harness, could have come with additional wires that may be needed on some customer's cars. Feed for a radio?
Since this is hot with ignition, looks like that ring terminal was also serving as a splice point in the harness. Second wire goes on the feed other thing(s).
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 11:06 AM
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JayChicago,
Thanks for the feedback. I assumed that my replacement harness was a "faithful" reproduction for the '40 Ford when I bought it 20+ years ago, but who knows. My radio is connected to another power source, but need to check where it gets its power from. I still think something else is going on that I haven't grasped yet. I have combed the available '40 wiring schematics but don't see anything yet that gives me any clue as to where it should reside. - I'll keep looking.
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 11:30 AM
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After another examination under the dash, I noticed that these 2 wires exit the dash loom directly above the factory punched hole through the lower ledge of the instrument panel (where the accessory heater switch Kube talks about in the '40 book). The joined wires are long enough to reach the switch. Could they be the main power source for the heater control switch?
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carcrazy
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 12:29 PM
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According to a "1939-48 V-8 Ford and Mercury Shop Manual Passenger Cars and Light Trucks" that I have, there are two yellow with black tracer wires under the dash. One goes from the ignition switch (battery terminal) to the circuit breaker where it is connected to a heavier yellow & black wire that goes to the "Bat" terminal of the voltage/current regulator. The other yellow & black wire goes from the headlight switch to the floor mounted beam control (dimmer) switch.
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kubes40
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 1:52 PM
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This has nothing to do with a heater nor a radio nor the ignition switch. No way.
With the type of terminal as well as two wires. I'd hazard a guess and say this is supposed to connect to the bottom terminal of the amp gauge - the HOT side.
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 4:53 PM
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Kube,
OK, I'll check into that and and let you know. FYI, my battery gauge seems to be working perfectly, but I'm open to any ideas at this point!
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kubes40
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 5:28 PM
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Your amp / bat gauge should have a double wire attached to it. That's the only thing I can think of that has a double wire in that area.
Mike "Kube" Kubarth
This message was edited by kubes40 on 5-21-21 @ 5:16 AM
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RAK402
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-- 05-20-2021 @ 7:02 PM
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I don't believe there should be an ammeter in a 40, only a volt meter.
(I know as I just put an ammeter in mine).
This message was edited by RAK402 on 5-20-21 @ 9:09 PM
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40 Coupe
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 4:07 AM
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Has your car been modified to use 12V? Looks like the power wires to the instrument panel temperature gauge from the ignition switch Gauge terminal two BG wires?????
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 7:38 AM
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Nope, still 6 volt.
Looking at the wiring diagrams I have, I only see a single wire going to the Battery indicator and it is marked as Black/Green - in fact, all the instruments receive power from this Black/Green wire. As mentioned previously, the Battery indicator is connected and works perfectly.
I think I'll just tape up the exposed end of the wires and let it go for now - I don't see anything in any diagram that shows these 2 wires and what they are meant to be attached to.
Thanks to all who chimed in with comments!
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TomO
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 8:27 AM
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Can you post a photo of the circuit breaker? That wire looks like it may belong on the circuit breaker.
Does your cigar lighter work?
Tom
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 11:17 AM
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TomO,
Circuit breaker photos attached...
My cigar lighter does not work/not connected - just have the knob in place for looks. It is located on the right side of the radio and the double wire connection in question doesn't reach it - it exits the main dash harness to the left of the radio and the leads are very short. As mentioned previously, this double wire setup is hot when the ignition switch is flipped to ON, so it must power something important, but what?? 
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 11:19 AM
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photos didn't come thru - trying to resend...
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 11:22 AM
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still trying...
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cub 45
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 1:44 PM
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put my head under the dash on my 40 tudor org wireing and I see right behind the cluster the same two to one wire that you show and it not connected to anything.
kurt
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-21-2021 @ 6:26 PM
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Kurt,
Thanks for sharing the interesting discovery that your original '40 wiring has the same anomaly. It sure seems odd that Ford would have built cars with hot wires hanging out in mid air under the dash like that with no protection from a short. Makes me wonder what they had in mind for them. The factory supplied wiring diagrams sure don't show them. I wonder if anyone else with a '40 has seen the same thing?
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pech33
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-- 05-22-2021 @ 8:49 AM
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Take a picture with your phone, send it to yourself in an email, then drag the picture from your "opened" email over to your desktop. Open the "Forum" to your reply and drag the picture in. That's works on my Mac, if you have Bill Gates Crappy Operating System, I wouldn't know how that works.
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Carcheologist
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-- 05-22-2021 @ 5:39 PM
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OK, here goes...
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TomO
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-- 05-23-2021 @ 10:19 AM
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You have the correct number of wires attached to the circuit breaker. The other end of one of the wires must go to the ignition switch as the ring is only hot when the switch is on.
Tom
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40 Coupe
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-- 05-25-2021 @ 12:54 PM
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Here is the wiring and schematic diagrams for the instrument panel note the TWO B/G wires on the temperature gauge one of the two goes to the ignition switch, the second goes to the battery indicator.
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