| Lincoln | -- 05-14-2010 @ 6:12 PM |
|
Mike: I sent a message two days ago on this forum but evidently it did not get posted. Would ask you to look under General Discussion for the April 30 topic of "99A Conv." Question came up about whether the serial number stamped on the frame of a Factory built Mercury engine equipped Ford would be prefixed with a 99A or an 18. I think that they would have the 99A to go along with the sequence of the Mercury serial numbers which were unique to those engines. You mentioned in the Sept-Oct 2009 V-8 TIMES that your car was also an original 95 HP 1940 Ford. How is your frame stamped? Thanks for sharing this info. Lincoln
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 05-15-2010 @ 6:48 AM |
|
I monitor the "New 1940 Ford Book" section on a near daily basis. I may miss '40 questions / concerns posted in the "General Discussion" area. Okay, your question... this is going to be long answer to a short question. Unfortunately it may create more questions. Here goes... I have known of two documented '40 Fords with factory installed Merc engines. One was a convertible. It had prefix 18. The other is my coupe. It has a prefix of PC. I have the papers with my car from day one. This includes (not limited to) the order letter to Ford from the dealer, the Telegram from Ford saying the car was ready to pick up and also the serial number. I also have the 'instruction' page that explained how the buyer should go about picking the car up at the Rotunda in Dearborn. The 'questions' I have about my particular car...It was in the same family since new. There is nothing on the order page to indicate a Merc engine should be installed although there were other options indicated. From what research has been done thus far, Merc engines were (supposedly) not offered in Ford cars in 1940 except to documented Police Facilities. So, how did this happen (my car)? From what I'd gleaned from the original (owner's) family no police affiliation ever. My best guess is... judging from the documentation that came with this car the original owner knew the Ford dealer rather well. Perhaps a 'favor' was done to get this built this way. Much like what happened in the '60s and '70s with rare muscle cars. Some of them, you simply had to know someone to get it... NOT advertised. Could this have been the case in '40? Sorry, I am not able to be more definitive. That's all we know at this point. If ANYONE can offer documentation in this subjects regard, it will be most appreciated!
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 05-15-2010 @ 5:02 PM |
|
Mike, Your answer begs the question: Without any documentation for either of the two '40's with 95 hp engines that you know of, what evidence can be presented to show that these engines were in fact factory installed? And please, what does your prefix PC represent? Alan
|
|
| supereal | -- 05-16-2010 @ 10:16 AM |
|
The apparent difference between Ford and Mercury engines was that from '37 thru '42, the Ford bore was 3.062 in. The bore for Mercury, from the beginning in '39, thru '48 was 3.187, which Ford then adopted in '44-'48. Given that the majority of cars of that era received replacement engines at some time, it is likely that a later short block was installed in your '40, making it seem to have a Merc engine from the beginning, absent better verification. I assume you have pulled the heads and measured the bore, in any case. Any non-standard stampings on a block were usually applied by an "authorized" Ford rebuilder.
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 05-16-2010 @ 11:56 AM |
|
Hi Supereal, I always enjoy your input and have learned a few things from you along the way. Okay... I do not have the documentation for the convertible. I had flown to Albany a number of years ago to inspect the car and it appeared by all points to be an authentic build. Still, no proof in my hands. I was not allowed to copy serial numbers, etc. I still know where the car is but have been unable to contact the owner for more than two years. My car... I have paperwork going all the way back to "new", December, 1939. This includes what I've described above (earlier post) as well as a PILE of service receipts, etc. This car was kept and maintained by a very obsessive family. Then, once sold to me, it was restored by a very obsessive owner (me). None of the sheets had shown the engine had been replaced. None had shown a valve job, ring job or other major work. Lots of receipts for the 'usual' stuff. All the numbers match on this car and it had appeared to never been apart before I got it. I am aware of rebuilder's stamps on the blocks. None exist. This is a Merc bore engine. I am also acutely aware of signs that an engine has been replaced, etc. I do not know what the PC prefix is indicative of. I have never found anything in the archives or elsewhere to explain it. This one remains a mystery. The archives does allow that Merc engines were in fact available after 1940 in police vehicles. Perhaps before? Perhaps we will never know for certain. I will do my best to find information that may solve this... PS, How about your email address so I can send you a copy of the purchase letter. You no doubt will find it interesting if nothing else. This message was edited by kubes40 on 5-16-10 @ 11:59 AM
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 05-16-2010 @ 1:09 PM |
|
Mike, Your unique documentation does seem to authenticate the engine by way of a lack of reference to a replacement engine, but I'll drag the subject out a bit further with some speculation: As the build sheet did not indicate a 95 hp engine, perhaps it was a mistake dating from when the engine assembly received its serial number. As your prefix is unusual, does the numeric series match either the Ford or the Merc series? Personal contact with any registered Forum user can be made by replying to the PM button. It's never a good idea to post a personal email address on any public forum. Once contact is made, a private exchange of email addresses can be made. Alan
|
|
| supereal | -- 05-17-2010 @ 9:10 AM |
|
With Ford, anything is possible. Unless there was a connection to a Ford official, or a production mistake was made, it seems unlikely that a 3 3/16 engine would be factory installed, but not impossible. In Ford production, anything at hand would be used if needed. I don't know if Mercs were made in the same plant and line as the Fords, as they are today. Special ordering is routine today, with the Ford SHO, and GM COPO programs. Thanks for the kind words. You can post the receipt by scanning it into JPEG and using the Image Attachment feature below the reply page.
|
|
| chrismac | -- 10-02-2010 @ 12:44 PM |
|
I have a 1940 Ford station wagon with Marmon Herrington 4wd conversion. The chassis number of this vehicle starts with 99. It was equiped with a Mercury V8 as most vehicles built with plans for the MH conversion were. Thanks, Chris
|
|
| kubes40 | -- 10-02-2010 @ 2:01 PM |
|
It seems that Ford would have prefixed the serial numbers of the vehicles with Mercury engines with "99". Did this always happen? Absolutely not. There is much research to be done yet on this subject. I hope to solve this mystery at some point in the future.
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=1247 |